The cheating bit (SPOILERS)

[maddyme]

Okay, I have gone around in circles on this.

For one, I am very anti-cheating in a relationship. I believe that if you can't work it out, you get out. Cheating seems like a cowardly thing to do.

With that said, what does everyone think about what Seth did at the end of book 3? How could someone that much in love, just sleep with another person and move on so quickly?

If I am honest, I always go back and forth on this. While a part of me tries to rationalize Seth's actions, it always seems like an open question to me. After reading book 5, I was hoping for some closure on this, but I guess I still have the same questions.

Edited by Cem: SPOILER WARNING: some spoilers for books 4 and 5 ahead...

[HCross9820]

I'm pretty anti-cheating in real life, BUT it didn't bother me in this case. I guess that it proved to me that they couldn't stay a part. I guess I have bigger issue with Seth sleeping with Maddie. In my crazy head, I see Seth as the cheater. What I mean by that is, that he dated and got engaged to Maddie, when she would truly never fill his heart like Georgina does. Doe that make sense.

[maddyme]

I am totally with you. I always understood Seth and Georgina's affair. Infact, it did not even feel like one to me. Maybe because I saw Maddie as the interloper in a way?

But yeah, Seth is shown as a guy who doesn't do casual dating. So, it makes sense that he would break up with Georgina and move onto someone he actually likes. But, sleeping with Maddie right after leaving Georgina's place, whilst they are still together in a way, that somehow I have never been able to reconcile with. Considering how deeply he professed his love to be at that time, it just felt so unimaginable that he would sleep with Maddie on a casual ran-into-each-other dinner date. Thats the part that has always troubled me, in a way.

I guess I am just looking for an insight into what others think about this bit.

[Cem]

I consider Seth a cheater for sleeping with Maddie before he and Georgie broke up. I also consider him and Georgie cheaters for sleeping together when Seth was with Maddie. I do (after Shadows) think that Georgie and Seth are meant for each other, but that doesn't excuse their actions.

I happen to love Maddie's character, and she had no clue about Georgie and Seth. If she had, I don't believe anything would have happened between her and Seth at all. And yet when he Seth was with her, he and Georgina ignored her, ignored their responsiblity to Maddie as a friend/boyfriend and slept together. That's cheating. I may understand to a certain point why it happened, but I can't just excuse it. They both have a lot to apologise for.

[maddyme]

Yes, Seth and Georgie did cheat on Maddie. But maybe its the romantic in me, but I have always felt that there is something so deep between Seth and Georgie that I could somehow reconcile their affair as unstoppable, something bound to happen. It was definitely fair to Maddie but I just can't bring myself to feel bad for her. I acknowledge that this is really unfair of me, but I don't like that character at all.
To me, Seth's cheating with Maddie was the worst transgression of it all. A part of me just doesn't get how he could do it even while I keep thinking that he had to do something severe enough to make himself break up with Georgie for good. Yet, it just doesn't sit well with me.

[Cem]

I don't understand how he could cheat either time. First with Maddie, and then on her. So not okay.

See, I think some people don't like Maddie simply because she's the 'wall' between Seth and Georgie. Instead of hating her being a succubus/him for cheating/their (Seth and Georgina's) relationship issues, they're blaming Maddie for the split. Which is in fact, not fair, because she is 100% innoccent in all of this. I completly understand why some people are transfering the blame, but I'm not. I love Maddie and find her easy to relate too and my heart aches for what happens to her. I'm not kidding, there are times when I hated Georgie for what she and Seth did, and I just wanted Maddie's story, not Georgie's.

Yes, I agree Seth and Georgina have a deeper connection. It's been known all along that Georgie was his girl more than Maddie. But, I don't for one second think Georgina being able to have sex without her powers in the way was a good enough excuse for Seth to ignore his girlfriend and Georgina to betray her best friend. Not even close. I very much want Maddie to have a happy ending in all this, but it seems unlikely I admit. I still want it. She's such an awesome character.

Seth and Georgina are both cheaters. Maddie is the completely innocent third party. She even asked in Dreams if there was something going on between Seth and Georgina, Georgie said no, they were just friends. If Maddie had, had any clue, she never would have done anything with him. Instead she was led to believe Seth loved her, only her, enough to marry her. The word 'ouch' springs to mind...

[maddyme]

Cem, I do not think Maddie is to blame at all for Seth's cheating. That is all on him. She is someone who was unfairly hurt and was the only innocent party in this mess. In fact, I think Richelle is a great author to not have taken the easy route and made her an unlikeable character in the typical sense. However the thing is, I really never liked that character. I found her a bit brash and pushy actually. Even before Seth and she got together, I just didn't find her appealing. It very well could be that I could see where the story was going and didn't like it.

I just can't take Seth and Georgina's affair in the same way I see a typical affair. I know I am not making much sense here. But I have always felt that there is context to every action. So, in a way I can understand and accept Seth and Georgina's affair. They are always shown to be soul mates with a deep bond between each other. Dating for months with no way to get physical killed their relationship. Seth only moved on because he felt (rightfully) that they had no chance at the time. So, when the one barrier to be with Georgina was removed, it felt very real that they would give in. All I am saying is, it felt very natural and human to me. Frankly, I am not sure if I wouldn't in that position.

[Cem]

Guess I didn't make myself too clear, sorry for any confusion, wasn't trying to say that's how you felt Maddie, just that to me, I think a lot of people, don't like Maddie cause of her position between Seth and Georgie. Not that they, or you, were blaming her for Seth cheating at all, just that instead of getting really mad at him, they're getting mad at her, cause she is (or was) stopping Seth and Georgie being together. Didn't mean it to sound like I was putting words in your mouth at all, sorry if it did, I wasn't actually talking specifically about you, or any one person, just general thoughts

For me, in the context it was, I don't understand how they could have the affair they did. Once, one time, I could understand that, but it wasn't only that. It was thought out and deliberate, not a heat of the moment thing. They deliberately betrayed Maddie, and that's what I hate.

Which is why I can be pissed at them for that, and not pissed at (SPOILERS for Rachel Vincent's Shifters book Prey) [spoilers]Faythe for sleeping with Jace. That was spur of the moment, in the middle of agony and they needed each other. I don't think for a moment it was right, but I can forgive it because it was only ever going to end in pain for them, and Marc, but in that moment, they were very much human and did the only thing they felt they could.[/spoiler] Georgina and Seth didn't. They don't have that excuse, that explination. If it had been a one thing time, I wouldn't like it, but yeah, I'd probably class it as understandable, human as you put it Maddy, but not the multipul times. That was a thought out affair, no way around it.

Maddie started out very awkward, brash at times, shy, sweet, friendly and I liked her from the start. She uses the brashness to try and cover her shyness and how awkward she felt at times, and her body image issues, something I think a lot of people can relate to!! I love her and feel incredably sorry for her.

[maddyme]

No offense taken, Cem. As I said, my dislike of Maddie partly (maybe a bit more too) stems from her role in the Seth-Georgina love story. And I am not usually like this about characters who have been cheated upon. But this is the only book where I can't seem to muster enough sympathy for this character.

Its funny that you mention Maddie's body image issues. I think Georgina is like that too. I felt Georgina has always been very uncomfortable in the body she was born with (Letha). All her recollections of that time talk about her ungainly height and awkwardness. In many ways, Maddie has many of Georgina's qualities in my eyes. Probably Seth's too. And I think that was his attraction to her in part.

As for the context of the cheating, I think it was about snatching some happiness in a life full of despair and hopelessness. As Seth said, he left Georgina to make sure he didn't hurt her and vice-versa. They were still real deep with each other. It doesn't excuse their actions but makes it very understandable to me. Seth sleeping with Maddie while he is still with Georgina - this is the one bit where I really wish Richelle would give us more insight into Seth's mind.