Thoughts on SB !!SPOILERS!!

[Cem]

I just don't like Adrian a whole lot. I mean, he's okay, but he's self destructive, and personally, I can't deal with that. I want him to grow up and give up the bad stuff for himself, not for Rose, not for anyone else. I don't want him dead by any means, but I just don't like him all that much. Certainly not with Rose. Jace, Jace I love just because I love him lol. I can't explain why I get on so much better with him than Marc, but I do.

About Lissa/Dimitri stuff. I thought Lissa was out of line at times, but actually it all made sense. Rose said, repeatedly, about how Lissa was protective like a mother, I think it was the process involving Spirit that brought Dimitri back that caused the adoration. I think that it's something that'll settle down as Dimitri adjusts to being back. And actually, I suspect Rose being in danger will have snapped some of it. It hurt to see it, and I hated it hurting Rose, but I don't actually have a real problem with it, because it fits.

I like Lissa a lot more again after this. She really grew up and showed she's not just a push over any more. I was so proud of her for learning to fight behind Rose's back. Her getting between Rose and Dimitri was the only time I really wasn't happy with her, but again it came back to the motherly feelings she's currently experiencing for Dimitri. It'll pass. Or Rose'll yell at her and make her realise she's out of line. Either way works. lol

[aanzzone]

Oh, so, who is on the cover?

[evilqueen21]

Whoa! You are so not getting what I meant by feeling cheated! What I was trying to get across was the whole book made me feel cheated because Adrian did not get his real 'chance' the one she promised him. Rose was always preoccupied with Dimitri and she kept feeling guilty and kept saying she really should give it an honest chance because she did feel something there, something had grown, she did feel more, she just had to explore it all. She said it, yet she never does it. Throughout the whole book he was just being used. He was giving her all this endless love and she was not returning it, not in the way he deserved. That's what pissed me off. That's why I felt cheated! The whole condom thing is just another issue on top of the heap (explained more below). What I wanted out of the sex was for her to finally let down her guard, to let him into her heart. To see that there was something there. I was hoping it would give her the opening to really, truly give him an honest chance. That's what I wanted.
Not just sex cause he's hot and I'm team Adrian... Lets face it it's YA it's not like they go into detail anyways!

RE condom: I still think it's a cop-out. Yes I know the wallet thing is not recommended what I was saying though is that it is something Adrian would do. It is in his character to do so. He's always been the sly, grinning bad-boy. Your just seeing the comforting lovesick side of him. And your looking at it as him having it in there for his shot at Rose as kind of an insult to her integrity or his honor, and making it out as him being a sleazeball. I was looking at it as something he would have had in there for awhile, well before the whole situation with Dimitri coming back Not just randomly put in there for when he went to 'comfort' Rose hoping to get his shot. They were supposedly getting closer as the days went along (way before Dimitri got his spirit back) even Rose was thinking of taking it to the next level as well. The cop-out part for me was that I think instead of giving Adrian & Rose a real shot at love she (RM) used the feeding as sort of a nullify-er to please the Adrian fans by giving them some sort of intimacy but withholding the true act to appease the Dimitri fans because the gung-ho ones would have went ape-shit! Take Cem, she was sick to her stomach just reading them kissing and getting close to her, goodness knows what she felt about the feeding or how she would have taken in sex if they had done so. I suspect it would prolly hurt something close to the way we feel with Faythe hurting Marc. But we have to deal with it, why shouldn't they? I think RM tried to make all sides happy. It just didn't work for me.

[Cem]

Apologies in advance if this gets harsh, off subject or makes no sense. I'm suffering from mild sun stroke today and my head is pounding lots, but I wanted to reply.

I don't believe Richelle used Rose feeding Adrian instead of them having sex as a cop out to please both sides. I believe there is more than that to it, because it she wrote it to attempt to keep both sides happy, then it would mean she was writing what her readers wanted rather than the story in her head and that could very easily destroy the books. So for that reason I hope you're wrong.

I also don't think thats what happened because well, Aly has a point. It wasn't sex, but it was still intimate as hell, and thinking about it, I don't think my reaction would have been much worse if it had been sex instead. It hurt reading that because not only was it Adrian she was intimate with, but she was being a fool allowing it. How many times has she flinched at being called a blood whore? Or looked down on those dhampir women who allow it? And yet she allowed it. Asked for it. To me, that was done as a show of just how hurt, angry, confused and lost Rose was feeling. Losing Dimitri, hunting him, everything that happened in Russia, getting a one in a million shot of getting him back, it works then he rejects her, completely. She was so confused and hurt and she just wanted the pain gone and to feel loved. That she was the center of someones world. And when Adrian didn't have a condom on him, that was her way to get what she wanted, what she needed. She's hurting herself as much as Adrian in that moment, even if she's yet to realise it fully.

[evilqueen21]

No your not being harsh, and I understand what your saying (I even agree with some )

But I will say that even though RM is writing from her head it does not mean she's not keeping the readers in mind too. Plenty of authors- even RV has mentioned wanting to please all even if it's not possible, but they do attempt in some ways, they do read reviews and they have their crit partners and editors who give them feedback on the story. The authors do even if not intentionally pick up on reader emotions and I think that does alter the story, even if it's not done consciously, I think a part of them makes the attempt because they want to make them happy in the long run.

As for her lowering herself with the feeding, I don't think she looks at it that way, especially not after how she felt with evil Dimitri. I think she flinches more from the fact of the status que, and how others frown upon it, how the blood whores are treated with disrespect, how they are used, and she does not want to be looked at in that way. But if things were different in society? if it was accepted and they were more respectful to them? I don't know if she would have as big of a problem with it. It feels good and it is in a way (for them) an act of intimacy shared. Why can't two people in love share that? I'm not denying that it was intimate, I just wanted more. For her & for Adrian.

I agree that she was acting out and hurt, and I think she definitely will end up hurting Dimitri worse in the long run. But I wanted a real chance, I wanted real love. I knew I had very slim chance of getting it, but one could hope right?

...and now one can be bitter! I iz going to wallow away for a bit, don't mind me, just my opinion.

[aanzzone]

Nikki I don't begrudge you feeling cheated that way. I just didn't think you should feel cheated as far as sex was concerned.

And honestly, yes, Adrian is all lovesick and whatnot, but I think he's being a little naive. He knew Rose loved/loves Dimitri, he should have been more careful IMO. Maybe that is just how Adrian is- like he said he had an addictive personality and he was addicted to Rose. He finds things that make him feel better and he puts everything into them. I love Adrian, I do, but I think he has some problems he needs to work out.

Maybe I'm insensitive- my mom started dating this guy and after 2 months was all heartbroken when it ended. I didn't have any sympathy. I mean, it was her first new relationship after 28 years, she put everything into it, and came out a sucker. IMO she should have taken it slow, guarded herself a little bit...

Same with Adrian. He should know better. (His whole change from playboy to lovesick is a little concerning, btw) On the one hand, his open heart is so, so endearing. On the other hand, his recklessness with his heart is concerning. They are the same thing.

IDK really what I am trying to say, I think I am scattered (sorry)....
1.) I love Adrian.
2.) I think he is being foolish in his love of Rose
3.) I am scared for him and how spirit will effect him
4.) I think spirit is responsible for #2
5.) I think Rose needs to end it and help Adrian rather than using him to help herself
6.) If there were no Dimitri, I could see Rose and Adrian together

[aanzzone]

Also, Nikki, you said somewhere you felt cheated because Rose promised him a real chance and she didn't give it to him, right?

I never "got" that... Did she really promise him a real chance at her heart? Maybe she said that and I just didn't give it much thought because I thought it was bullshit. There was no way she should have made a promise like that, no way she was ready for it. If she made that promise, she lied. And that sucks for Adrian, but (with how honest and smart he was being toward the end of SB) again, he should have known better.

[Cem]

Re blood whore stuff. No I don't believe that even if it wasn't frowned upon that it would be okay for dhampirs to be fed off for fun/sex/intimacy because the bite is a drug and it's addictive. That's part of why it's frowned upon. So even for the 'right' reasons, I don't think it's something Rose should have done, or something she'll like herself too much for later on. I agree that Rose doesn't treat the idea the way she did at the beginning of the series, but even so, I don't think she believes its okay enough for her to take part in such an act. But like we've already agreed, Rose was upset and hurting badly.

Re Rose's promise to Adrian. She initially made it so she could have his money and go after Dimitri. She lied to him because she didn't think she was coming back. When she did, her sense of ... whatever, made her agree. And I think that in her mind, she did give him a reasonable chance. Not a real one, because she does mention something about taking him seriously, but it wasn't just a casual one either. And like I've said already, I don't think she realises how much she's been using him. Which is sad for him, but I totally get it.

[aanzzone]

I agree that Rose isn't doing any of this intentionally- at least not in the beginning. She wouldn't do that again, not after Mason.

[maddyme]

May 22, 2010 13:58:02 GMT -5 aanzzone said:

Oh, so, who is on the cover?

I think it is Adrian and Rose. Because real relationship or not, at the end of the book, they are together.

As for Rose's intention of giving Adrian a fair chance. I think she thought that, that is what she should do. Not what she wanted to, but the only option to get over Dimitri was to plunge into a relationship with Adrian. Considering her age, it actually is not all that surprising.

I think underneath it all, most of Adrian's playboyish tendencies are not all that natural to him. I think it is just his way of coping up with Spirit's influence. I really feel his smoking, drinking, addiction to Rose is more about that than anything else. That is why him not having a condom with him made sense to me. I also think that by then Adrian was actually very uncertain of where they stood with each other. Another reason for him to be unprepared.

I really liked that Rose and Adrian didn't have sex. And this is not because I am a huge Dimitri fan. I just am tired of reading books where a female has sex with the wrong guy because she is ticked off with the one she wants. It is almost as cliched as a guy drinking to cope up with his sorrows. Esp. considering Rose's thoughts after the non-sex, it was really good that they didn't do it.

[HCross9820]

Hey guys, well I finished Spirit Bound this weekend. I wanna post my review, and read through everyone comments. May is always crazy for me. Here in Indianapolis we hold the Indy 500, which is the biggest one day sporting event in the world. The 2 weeks leading up to it are filled with amazing activities. I do volunteer work for a charity org connected with them, too. So I'm trying to balance work, charity work, social life, and reading. This is killing me!

Give me a few days to get my self together and I post something I promise. I feel like such a bad little fan girl! I will say this much, I liked it more then I thought I would. I just had heard negative comments, but nothing specific. I actually really likes it!

[amethyst]

I was pretty shocked by the Queen's demise too, and I'm still trying to figure out Ambrose. So, who is setting Rose up? I'm thinking that the culprit's endgame is to get to Lissa, maybe not to kill her but rather to manipulate her. Because if the culprit wanted Lissa dead and gone, surely that would be easier to accomplish than murdering the Queen herself?? Or maybe I'm reading too much into it and it's just somebody who really hates Rose, lol. I don't think Eddie could be THAT pissed at her (and I don't think he's got the resources to pull off that kind of thing anyway). I'm not sure how I feel about Tasha - I mean, I like her a lot but I keep wondering if she's feeling vengeful towards Rose (maybe for keeping Dimitri from accepting her job and baby offer). Or Adrian's parents?

I felt so bad for Rose when she kept trying to see and talk to Dimitri. I totally get why she would keep pushing the issue, but then I got irritated when she sat by him in church and talked to him. I kept thinking, "Have some pride, girl! This is one try too many!" His behavior in the cafe when the Queen's guard came for her really helped me feel better along those lines, though...

[Cem]

I really don't think it's Tasha. It's not 'her' ya know? Adrian's parents...wouldn't rule it straight out, but I'd be surprised. Or maybe they're involved some way, I just doubt they did the dirty work themselves.

Ambrose, if he hadn't passed Rose the note, he'd be my number one subject, but for that I'm 100% sure it wasn't him. He's got more to say I feel, but I don't think he's involved.

When Rose was with Dimitri in the church it kinda killed me. I got exactly why she was pushing I was fine with her trying because they're made for each other and if she doesn't take the chance nothing will happen. It killed me when he told 'love fades'. Most heartbreaking line. I knew he was lying, pushing her away the only way he knew how, but I completely see why Rose bought it. The way she reacted with Adrian because of Dimitri's rejection was so, so painful because it was so clear she was doing it because she was hurt, not because she loved him or anything. I'll be happier when Rose and Dimitri are back together, but there is still so much to deal with. Loved him standing up for her at the end though, that was just...awesome.

[janeeandgun]

Sorry guys, I haven't read the rest of the thread so if I end up repeating what you've discussed already just ignore me. I'm in a mood to rant.

I am disgusted with Rose. She knew, she knew all along that she didn't hold true feelings for Adrian but what did she do? String him along and keep him in the dark about her extra curricular activities. She used him! There is no other way to put it, she kept him around in case she had to kill Dimitri. She knew that her feelings for him weren't as strong as they were for Dimitri, his mother even told her in person, she knew how much he adored her yet she still had the nerve to literally spit in his face. She's been so selfish in Spirit Bound, I can't help but grit my teeth.

I really like the side of Adrian that was shown in his loyalty to Rose. I love that he doesn't take all of Rose's BS, even though he does swallow some. And he seems so sincere, he deserves someone who would reciprocate. Maybe Mia? I like Mia.

But my heart breaks for Dimitri. It's so obvious that he's the same guardian he was before being Strigoi; a man of morals. Rose was a fool to take Dimitri's words personally. She wasn't thinking about the self-betrayal and heartache Dimitri was going through, she knew he hated himself but she was stupid enough to assume he wouldn't go to such desperate measures to keep her away. Did she really think it was going to be so easy?

How could she just try to jump into bed with Adrian, though? Why didn't she think of Adrian and Dimitri before attempting something so rash? It was only her second time, it's not like she's sexually wired or desperate. And the spiel about loving him a little bit after a whole book where she only thought of him in his presence or when she knew she was betraying him. Ugh!!!

As for Tatiana. I think Dashkov gave the order to get rid of her. He's probably been planning it all along and then was inconveniently imprisoned. I'm sure he has the resources for the deed. He was probably the one to have stolen the records as well. He's sneaky, I wouldn't count him out of anything.

[amethyst]

Hmmm, Janee... Adrian and Mia... you know, I kinda like that! It hadn't occurred to me, but I think it works. Adrian's a good guy (we think!) but he's not meant for Rose.

And I agree, Rose gets on my nerves at times! But I probably wouldn't relate to the character as well if she weren't flawed that way.