Thoughts on SB !!SPOILERS!!

[Cem]

WARNING huge spoilers ahead, as well as rambling un-edited early thoughts. You have been warned

I read Spirit Bound today, mostly straight through. I did have to stop a couple times for a break, because I'm too obsessed and things got too intense. But even then I couldn't put it down for more than 10/15mins. I should state now that I do love this book, because it may not seem like it when I'm done...

First off, YAY!!!! Dimitri is alive again!!!!!

But, before that happened, I was having a really tough job reading Rose/Adrian. It was clear (thank goodness) that Rose was/is still very much in love with Dimitri and dedicated to trying to save him, but she seemed to have moved on a whole lot more than I was expecting. And that grew as the book wore on. I was seriously terrified at times that Richelle was going to let me down and have Rose with Adrian by the end of the series. I could barely read the scene near the end where they got hot and heavy. It was tearing me apart to read her with any one else.

Adrian did surprise me though. I thought his feelings for Rose were serious to an extent, but not as serious as they are. Which is kind of sad, because while I'm far from his biggest fan, he doesn't deserve to end up alone and I don't really see him getting a HEA.

Dimitri. Oh Dimitri! My heart broke for him seeing the mess he was when he came back from being a Strigoi. It was so painful to read, to see him as weak and helpless, so overrun with guilt and shame. Him pushing Rose away was heart wrenching, from both sides, and I hated reading it because they're meant for each other. But at the same time, I am really glad there isn't anything simple about Dimitri's return and his dealing with Rose since it. It would be wrong it things were easy or sorted out quickly. Also, what then would fill the final book?

I know that the end of the book seemed pretty clearly headed for a Rose/Adrian partnership at the end of the series, but I actually doubt it more now than after Blood Promise. Yes, Rose and Adrian are much closer, there is no denying that, however, Rose kept forgetting about Adrian once Dimitri was back. And despite her 'choosing' Adrian, she still felt that connection with Dimitri, and he was much more himself right at the end. Hearing about the new age law shocked him out of his depression some, and then suddenly Rose was in danger and all he was going to do was protect her, no matter the cost. He loves her.

He lied when he told her his love for her had faded. He knows her better than anyone and knew what he needed to say to really push her away. He knew it would drive her from him. That pain drove her to Adrian, and she was hurt enough, looking for a way out of that pain, that she told him to bite her. That part was almost impossible for me to read. I was just 'nonononononononono' all through it. But then the magic line "Some tiny part of me said that even though I'd wanted this and cared about Adrian [cared, not loved], the whole act had been wrong. I hadn't done it for the right reasons, instead letting myself get carried away by my own grief and confusion."

Dimitri is her guy. Adrian was just filling a void. Yes, she cares about him, more than a friend, but she isn't in love with him, and he's not her soul mate, Dimitri is. It was mentioned at least once that she felt her connection with Dimitri 'soul deep'. Also, with a love triangle like this, the guy isn't getting picked til the very end, and Rose's story is far from over.

Abe. I love him. He was awesome at the start and the end. In fact, I pretty much loved the whole ending starting with Rose and Dimitri in the coffee shop/cafe/whatever it was. It showed that Rose and Dimitri are still very much in love with each other, even if things are far from good between them right now, and I never saw Tatiana's murder coming!! What a shock that was!! And then the note Rose got?! But Abe stepping in and promising her she wouldn't see trial, that he'd take care of things. Wow. Total awesome. And Dimitri in the court room watching her. He may not be ready to admit that she can/has forgiven him, or to be with her, but he's not about to let her get hurt again.

I love how Lissa and Christian worked out as well. Lissa grew a lot in my opinion through this. She's a lot stronger and less naive than she was, which was great to see. Their mutual jealousy was funny and sweet. Okay, so they were both stubborn to not see that the other was hurting and missing them like crazy, but oh well, they got there in the end!

Dashkov...can't quite believe he's free! Just like that! But at least Rose and Lissa got what they needed from him first. Still, it'll be interesting to see what part he plays in the final book.

Overall, loved the book, despite it getting insanely tense at times. It was painful and there were some big shocks, and some very funny moments too and overall I thought it was a great book. But I don't think I could reread much of it often for the serious heartache. I can not stand Rose and Adrian together, and I hated seeing Dimitri weak, despite it being the 'right' thing. Also hard to take was his adoration of Lissa, though I know it was all based on what she did and probably has some basic tie to her power. Still, kinda creepy. Hoping it's something that fades at least a bit. And yes, may be a Rose/Adrian heavy book, but I'm still convinced it's going to be Rose/Dimitri by the end. Anything else would be wrong.

Okay, I'll stop now

[evilqueen21]

Full of MAJOR SPOILERS


Oh where do I begin?!! It is so, so hard for me to put into words what I mean to say but I will try... First off, like Cem I will say in the beginning that I do like this book a lot but by the end of my mini rant it might not sound like it. For the same yet far different reasons then Cem. lol So here goes...

My main issue with this book is that I felt cheated! Those of you who know me from the other forum will know I am a huge Adrian supporter! (yes I know, I'm outnumbered! ) and I'm not naive. I know that in the end Rose will end up with Dimitri, therefore this was my only shot for some real Team Adrian love, since Last Sacrifice will be all about Dimitri & Rose finding themselves again.

I know you must think I'm crazy- from the Team Dimitri side it may have come across as bad, but it was really nothing. Like Cem mentioned Rose did not give herself to Adrian not even half-way he was being used by her to fill a void. Arrrgh! It pisses me off! Take Faythe she does love Jace (as much as I don't like it) she at least put effort into her hidden relationship with Jace. She felt emotions for him and was/is torn between the two. Rose & Adrian? Not even close, she just strung him along over and over again making him think she was, or worse did not even think of him at all. Towards the end (the 'hot & heavy' scene) even though I knew she was using her hurt from the sting of Dimitri's words to push her along, and she was already prepping herself for regret. I still wanted it to happen, a part of me held out hope that maybe she could fall in love with him for real if they would just do it already! Then of course the whole condom situation! *growls* I know this is YA and that was the appropriate way to handle it BUT oh how it kills me RM wrote that! Come on it's Adrian! He's been waiting for this moment since forever. It would have been so in his character to have him prepared & ready! (you know by having one in the wallet at all times?!!!)

IMO That was an easy out RM took to avoid setting off the 'Dimitri & Rose Forever' fans. I know the feeding is sexual in nature too and it was 'intimate' so to speak but it is not the same! Dammit! At least with the M/F/J triangle Jace gets his chance (and other moments I'm not happy about!) This should have been Team Adrian time, he should have had a fair chance. Hell even Rose promised to give him one. But she didn't and to me it was worse than having her love them both, it was worse seeing him put through all that for nothing! Hence my feeling cheated... Reading this book even made me lose some respect for Rose. Which until this book she was my second favorite heroine (Kate Daniels being #1). I still like her as a heroine, she just lost major points.

Just some random thoughts on the rest of the book...

Abe- I agree, Love, Love, LOVE him! He's fun I wish he was in it more, and can't wait for LS where I have a feeling he will have much, much more plot time!

The Prison break was exciting... Loved that whole scene and of course the kidnapping & rescue of Lissa was really great reading too!

Lissa- Way to go Lissa! I think it was very awesome of her to fight for the chance to help Rose no matter the cost. As much as I kinda wanted Dimitri to stay evil (put the knife down Cem!) I am proud of her that she pushed and actually succeeded in giving something back to Rose after all the times Rose had risked her life for her. That was some true friendship!

Her having a half-sibling floating around out there, no surprise there. Don't tell me y'all did not see that coming?! I knew at the very first mention of 'he liked the ladies' while they were in Vegas. Too easy... and then of course RM drew a figurative picture with all the hints with the files being stolen, the money being funneled, the law of a family must have 2 to be on the council. So not subtle. Again- I know this is YA but please, teens are not that slow... I think a little more mystery to it all would have made the 'revelation' in the queen's letter more of a shocker!

The Queen's murder- hmmm who could have done it? I'm baffled. It could be one of Victor's games but I just don't really see it being him, and really since it was such an obvious set up it seems to simple for it to be him. This will keep me guessing for awhile!

[Cem]

I saw the half-sibling coming after the mention of him being a ladies man, yes. That wasn't the shocker in the letter for me. The shocker for me, was the letter itself. She really didn't hate Rose, not completely, and she really was trying to make things a little better, the only she could. I was shocked to know she was not the evil bitch I thought she was. Ambrose was right about her.

I think you're being a little harsh on Rose, although I can totally understand it. I don't think she has any idea how much she's been using Adrian, not yet. I don't believe she's callous enough to use him so blatently. I honestly think that right now she believes she could have some kind of future with him. She hasn't realised what we already know, that he's filling the void Dimitri left, but only patically and can't actually cover it.

Re the no condom thing, hmm, maybe an easy out, yes, but being Team Dimitri, I can't help but be incredably greatful for it. Yeah, that may be why she did it, there may be another reason, and I can understand why Team Adrian fans could feel cheated by it, but I'm very happy it went that way. Rose allowing Adrian to feed off her was wrong, and kinda sick, but it was better than the other option because...I don't actually even know, but it was. And it's something I don't see Rose allowing it again. She'll wake up and realise it was a dumb idea, that she never should have allowed it in the first place. At least, I hope she will...

I agree, I'm baffled as to who killed the queen. I so did not see that coming and I really, really don't have a clue who killed her.

[evilqueen21]

I'm so pissed, I just wrote out a long response to counter my being harsh comment but it deleted itself instead of posting! Grrr!

In short (since I don't remember it all to write it all out again) I don't think I'm being harsh, being harsh would be me hating her for it. Which I don't, I still like Rose I'm just not happy with her at the moment for stomping all over my Adrian's heart is all. My poor Adrian

See I don't think she honestly believes they have a future together. Thats what bothers me so much. She sees it and acknkowleges it to herself several times in the book and she expresses guilt/remorse for it too. But yet she still strings him along. That's what made her lose some 'Heroine points'!

[Cem]

'some kind of future' I know she acknowledged that they couldn't have a happy ever after, but I do believe she thought they could be something for a while. And even if she didn't, I still don't think she really sees the depth of her self delusion. Which is what it is.

And actually, it's probably a little harsh of me to say maybe you're being harsh on Rose, cause you just see it differently to me lol. I have this tendancy (if you didn't notice it with Faythe already) to empathise with the protagonist a lot. Doesn't mean I don't get mad at them, becuase goodness knows I got plenty mad at Rose through this one, but I tend to like figuring out why they're doing what they're doing when they make dumb romantic decisions. And for me, Rose is still greiving for Dimitri. She lost him, she fought him, she was abused by him, and now he's back and pushing her away. But throughout it all she's loved him completely. Who wouldn't be a mess? Problem is, she's talked herself (unconsiously) in to deeper feelings for someone else (Adrian) than she really has. She can't see yet that she's hurting him, because he's helping her ignore her own pain.

[xkenaix]

I'm with Nikki! Being an Adrian lover I do feel cheated! I wanted there to actually be a Rose and Adrian relationship but I don't really feel like there was! I think he's way too understanding and that lets Rose walk all over him! Maybe part of the problem is I'm forgetting that Rose is a teenager and when it comes to relationships she has little experience but I can't help but think that with Adrian she is mirroring what happened with Mason. She's using someone to avoid the being lonely feeling and that grinds my gears.

As far as the sex scene goes if we can even call it that I'm more than gutted! I do think that Adrian would be prepared so I'm really annoyed that it didn't happen! But then again if they had done it and Rose had regretted it I think I would be livid!

I'm not ready to say whether I loved it or hated it cause at the moment I'm just really frustrated!

[maddyme]

I think Rose does use Adrian to fill the void. But I don't think she does it intentionally. She actually really likes the guy but just doesn't love him enough. I thought that the first half of Spirit Bound really made it seem like Rose and Adrian could have a future. But even then, you could see Dimitri's presence in her every action and thought. Once he was converted, there really was no way she could still choose Adrian. I think if RM had gone that way, that to me would not have been in line with Rose's character. She is impetuous but also loyal. The scene with Adrian as painful as it was, just didn't feel natural to me. You could almost sense Rose's revenge on Dimitri by sleeping with Adrian. Totally unfair to Adrian but not something she willfully chose to do.

As some of you know, I was accidentally spoilered about the trial part of the ending by someone on RM's facebook.
Still did not expect it till the guardians appeared on the scene. That is some real good writing there.

I too suspected Lissa having another sibling when the quorum was mentioned. This is total wild speculation, but does anyone else think that it could be Jill? I mean, RM did go out of the way to describe Jill and her mom. She is also blonde, tall and gangly. Maybe something there?

The one part I thought was just perfect was Dimitri's behavior after coming back. His remorse, loyalty to Lissa and turning Rose away were exactly what I would have expected for the character. In fact, I kept thinking that if Dimitri is not converted back till Last Sacrifice, how does the character redeem himself? That's when I was worried that Rose will not end up with him. But reading Spirit Bound makes me a bit more confident that these two are destined to be together.

[Cem]

I couldn't agree more with that first paragraph.

That really sucks that you got the trial bit spoiled!! How gutting. I'd have been furious. Still, I'm glad it still managed to surprise you.

Jill as Lissa's illigitimate sibling? Now that would be an interesting twist!! I hadn't thought about that. And when I first read it this morning, I thought 'nah, but nice idea' but actually, her mom is a dancer right? So maybe...

I kept flinching when Dimitri was showing all that attention on Lissa. Like Rose, I knew it wasn't romantic, and I get where it was coming from, but I still flinched at it becaue while I agree, it would be a bit odd without it, the only girl he should look that way at, is Rose.

Okay, now my mind is just spinning on Jill maybe being the sibling...lol I know it could be anyone, someone we've yet to meet even, but...I actually kinda really like that idea now. But honestly, who knows? Richelle is pretty good at surprising us. But Maddy, you def get bonus points if it turns out you're right!! lol

[evilqueen21]

hmm intresting theory on Jill being the lost sibling. It didn't cross my mind, but you make good points

As for Dimitri's 'return' I thought RM wrote it out alright. That was the one thing that really had me worried. I really did not want to see the story compromised and when she wrote once turned you can't go back, I was nervous that there was no way for her to write it out that would mesh well with me. (besides the fact that I <3 evil Dimitri! ) The only thing with his behavior after the fact that botherd me was Lissa. IDK I just thought it was odd and in my mind I did not see him acting like that at all. But I totally agree with his remorse & the was he shunned Rose, that was very in-character for him.

[maddyme]

I know Cem, remember how pissed off I was about reading Last Sacrifice's snippet. That is where the trial bit was from. The thing is, I didn't read anything beyond that line. Now a part of me wishes I had. Waiting is SO hard.

I really like Adrian's character but I can't help but wonder why he doesn't get it. Yeah, he is aware of Rose's feelings for Dimitri but it is so obvious that she is really not all that into him. Even when she said she wants to give it a try, she says something like - I think I love you a little bit. I get that he is optimistic and wants to believe, but Spirit Bound actually more than any other book showed that there could be no future between the two. And this is not just because of Rose's obsession with Dimitri but because she doesn't get Adrian, at all.
She sees him as this indulgent, superficial playboy and is actually surprised at times to see him hurt because of her. She doesn't even make the effort to know what makes Adrian tick. All their conversations is centered around her and her wants/needs. It does make Rose selfish and self-indulgent but then we all are when we are not really interested in the other person all that much. At different points in the book, I just wanted to yell at Adrian - dude, get a clue. Poor guy.

Now onto more wild spec.
I think Sydney saying Adrian is cute and then the stress on her hating vampires was something. We know that the VA spin-off is going to feature Sydney in the first one. Anyone thought there is something there?

My guesses for the spin-off are Mia, Jill, Eddie and Sydney. As for who will be off'ed in Last Sacrifice, anyone thinking it will be Tasha or maybe, Janine? I refuse to believe it could be Dimitri. Even if I read that, I won't believe it.

[Cem]

Re Adrian and Sydney, I thought the same thing!!! lol just the way Sydney mentioned Adrian being cute, it was just...yeah, like maybe it could be a thread picked up at some point. As for others in the spin off, I don't really know. I'd love to see more of Eddie, Mia and Jill, but I don't think I could guess as to how any combination of them could be fitted together for the spin off. I'm actually pretty happy to wait and see who it is.

Back to Rose/Adrian. There were times when I thought the same thing, that Adrian should wake up and realise that he can never have any real relationship with Rose. And Rose really should realise what she's doing to him. But I do really get why she doesn't see it too. I want Last Sacrifice so bad now, just to find out how exactly Rose and Dimitri end up together again. Because it's going to happen, no question.

As for deaths in LS, I so don't want to speculate on that!! lol

[aanzzone]

Ok, I didn't read everything y'all wrote, so sorry if I repeat stuff:

Adrian & Rose- Didn't really bother me. I'm glad there is someone there who loves her and can help her through this.



Anywho. Very upset that Dimitri was all hero-worship with Lissa and telling Rose to go away. If I were Rose, I would have flipped my shit. Maybe it is immature, but Lissa and Dimitri protecting each other and telling Rose to back off (even though Rose was suffering too!!) Gah!!! And how Lissa screamed at Rose to back off then turned to sympathy once she left? Oh, hellll no. IMO, Rose & Dimitri is between Rose & Dimitri. Lissa has no right to be there. I didn't see Rose coddling Christian or yelling at Liss when everything happened there...

But I've never really been Lissa's biggest fan. I'm still not. Even though she did bring Dimitri back (technically!- and she shouldn't have let Dimitri give her so much credit!) how she just freezes up and can't do anything when there is danger / how she let Victor go / her general incompetence... I can't handle it.

Dimitri- I'm glad seeing Rose in trouble kind of snapped him out of it. I love that he fought for her, I love that we got to see that intensity again. And we were right about a stake infused with Spirit! I forgot who said it but one of us mentioned it! YAY us!

Lissa & Christian- YAY! I like them together And I like Lissa as far as this plot line goes

Lissa's sibling- When they were in Vegas and that manager said something about Eric enjoying company, I knew something was up. Again, when something was stolen from the Alchemist files, it got really sketchy. Queen Tatiana mentioning the Quorum Law finally made it click. I didn't know what Eric's shenanigans had to do with anything but when they said that Law, it was obvious he had a child.

I saw Jill somewhere on this page- don't know who said it- but I think you are right. It makes sense. An already established character, someone they already know and care about, and plus, her mom was a ballerina!! It's perfect. His dad liked the dancers, doesn't it make sense that her mom would have, at one point, performed in Vegas? Why else would they have Rose meet her mom? Also, when her mom said something about having to live where the bills are paid... If Jill's mom was Eric's mistress, before he died he was making large deposits into her account. Now that he's dead and those deposits stopped, money would be tight, right? Jill makes sense.

Queen Tati- I liked her. No more her being "Queen Bitch"... I feel bad that she is dead. When they said she was killed, I immediately thought Ambrose (lovers quarrel, and how ironic that the "dhampir" staked her?)... kinda threw me when he gave Rose that note.

Abe.... I just love him. I started cheering when he walked into that courtroom! I’m so glad he’ll be there for her, fighting for her.

I think Rose needs to get Sydney, Adrian, Abe, Dimitri, Christian, and Lissa all in one room and tell EVERYONE EVERYTHING. Breaking Victor from prison, Lissa's Dad, the missing Alchemist documents, the note from Tatiana... all of it needs to be on the table. She's going to need allies and the only way to efficiently move forward is for everyone to have all the information.
Oh, and I think, at some point, someone like Dimitri is going to falsely "confess" to killing the Queen to get Rose free.

[aanzzone]

Oh- condom thing.

There's been so much talk in these books about who you can and cannot have kids with... I'm sure you guys would have had something to say too if there wasn't a condom mentioned.

I don't think it was necessarily a copout. Look at it this way- Adrian and Rose shared something that Dimitri (dhampir) and Rose could never share. I think sucking blood is more intimate than sex anyway. Would you Team Adrians really have been satisfied if they had sex? C'mon, you know she wasn't doing it for the right reason. Would you wish sex-for-wrong-reasons on our Rose? I wouldn't. I think the blood sucking was a really good compromise on Richelle's part.

I honestly think you guys are putting too much weight on the sex. Nikki, how can you feel sooo cheated just because they didn’t have sex? Sex is something people do everyday with complete strangers. Sex is sex. It’s physical. It’s procreation. HOWEVER, the sweet kisses to the forehead, the holding hands... Adrian got that. The Team Adrian fans got that.

Adrian loves Rose. Nikki, what do you think is more important to Adrian? Rose looking into his eyes / cuddling up against him or him having sex with her? Do you think Adrian is putting as much weight into sex as you are? Hell, do you think Adrian feels cheated?

IDK, I feel from the characters POV. When Marc is hurt, I am furious. If Marc is OK, I am OK. Rose was extremely hurt/pissed by Dimitri/Lissa, I was hurt/pissed. I don’t think Adrian felt cheated. He should have remembered a condom, yeah, maybe he was like awww crap. But feeding from her was still wonderful for him. So don’t be so upset just because sex was replaced with someone more intimate for a vampire.

I am honestly crinkling my nose that you guys were wishing sex on Rose when it wasn’t sex she truly wanted or was ready for. Feeling cheated for everything else... that she was just half-assing the relationship, OK. But feeling cheated for the sex... *shakes head*

[aanzzone]

Oh, and about Adrian not having a condom, which y'all keep talking about.

Put yourself in Rose's shoes. She's hurt, she's struggling to move on... What if you were that girl. What if you were the girl who only kissed her boyfriend, who made it CLEAR that sex was not going to be happening anytime soon. How would you feel if your boyfriend carried a condom on him at all times?!!? Pressure, much!?

Adrian NOT carrying a condom says he respects Rose's decision. Hell, if Adrian came that night- and I assume he was coming to comfort Rose- if he came with a condom I would have thought he was a total dickhead. Talk about taking advantage of the situation!! Him NOT having a condom says he cares for Rose, he respects her, he isn't the same playboy he once was, he IS a good guy, etc. etc. etc.

Oh, and you shouldn't carry condoms in wallets. They wear down and are more likely to break.

[aanzzone]

Sorry if anything is harsh/mean/rude... I'm not really filtering what's coming from my brain.